Curse

Savio · May 21, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

@Jagflame: I think the main reason many people perceive Luxons to have an advantage is because the Luxons' goal is straightforward: kill everything in their path. For Kurzicks, killing everything won't win it though, since most of what they kill respawns in a few seconds.

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Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

feel free to teach me.

Interrupt the turtle, enchant a Kurzick ele. It's not that hard.

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As for telling people how to play... Protect amber mines! If you do, there is virtually no way Kurzik can win.

Luxons can't protect both the mines and their turtles at the same time effectively.

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one problem: there is no preteaming there.

There's a good chance that people who hit "Enter Mission" at the same time end up on the same team. In addition, after a successful team has come back they all tend to hit "Enter Mission" at the same time too, so you often times end up with most of the same people.

generik · May 21, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

There's nothing wrong with aspenwood - play it for a week before you scream for a nerf. Losing for a few matches (or even a day) doesn't mean that a map is imbalanced, it might mean that your team sucks or that the other team is particularly good.

So I've gotten 64K factions to date, most of which from this fort. And that's almost 100 games.

So all I can say is, when the Luxons have healing for their turtles, they win very consistently. In fact it is virtually assured victory. And yes, we do have powerful degens on our team, I know this for a fact since I can even get a target to -10 degen with healing breeze on. And if their monk has a clue and even brings along hex and condition removal, it is basically time to just switch to reading forums and AFK.

Like I said earlier, turtle + monk = almost assured 600 factions

LamerFlamer · May 21, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Easy way to beat aspenwood on kurzick..BRING AN INTERRUPT! I can't stress enough how important an interrupt is on this map. When I play, I almost always play A/R Barrager with distracting shot to defend against the turtles, one turtle is almost always a kitty when I interrupt it constantly.

Mr_T_bot · May 21, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

During hte FPE i ran upto it and was bounced away 3 times in a row.

During the FPE I could random join a group of 12 different people and run around killing the other team while coordinating with the team I was on or at least yelling "WE NEED PEOPLE AT THE RES SHRINE" and clicking on the map so everyone sees.

Mandy Memory · May 21, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

The juggernaut things are a lot more powerful and can kill a turtle easily.

Ira Blinks · May 21, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Interrupt the turtle, enchant a Kurzick ele. It's not that hard.

Can't talk about interrupts, but i tried bonding kurzik ele.
@ 12prot prayers: life barrier, life bond, reversal, prot spirit
@ 9 healing: healing breeze
Luxons still rip thru pretty easy. Anf if they got MM... can barely get a heal on this guy before he dies...

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Luxons can't protect both the mines and their turtles at the same time effectively.

err what?
You do know that luxon rangers got cripple? You do know you can trap teleport pad? You do know you actually SPAWN on the mine when you own it? You do know that amder runner have to make it all the way back thru attacking Luxon warriors who happily spam Covard?
All you need is one guy with snares/cripple on each mine and gg.

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There's a good chance that people who hit "Enter Mission" at the same time end up on the same team. In addition, after a successful team has come back they all tend to hit "Enter Mission" at the same time too, so you often times end up with most of the same people.

i fail to see your point.

Jagflame · May 21, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

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i fail to see your point.

Then you're blind. He's saying that it is fairly easy to get in a team that way with someone you know so that you can pick part of your team.

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All you need is one guy with snares/cripple on each mine and gg.

So from what I've gathered from what the Kurzicks are complaining about is that if Luxons have a healer on each turtle and a cripshot on each mine then they win for sure. That's four team positions. The chances that you get two cripshots and two monks in the same team in a randomly selected 8vs8 is beyond unlikely. You are also forgetting that a Kurzick Cripshot is just as capable as a Luxon one.

Honestly Ira I do not approve of your attitude in this thread. Your posts seem to downplay others, including Savio who is a forum mod.

Poison Ivy · May 21, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Luxons that don't see from the Kurzick's point of view will complain about this forever.

Kurzicks who don't see the Luxon's point of view will die argueing ^^

Fluffyx · May 21, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I'm with generik. Carrier Defence is just lame, put 1 monk healing or bonding turtles and you might aswell just leave. Not to mention the fact they can send 2 in at once, almost constantly! Last time i checked that skill didn't even have a cooldown! During hte FPE i ran upto it and was bounced away 3 times in a row.

If only you could organize those randomly arranged team to get those monks. :P
Go and capture the capture the command points so they can't keep sending them in, one assassin can kill the commanders and their priest. The point is its random therefore its perfectly balanced with the idea that neither team is not organized with better players, though there are times better teams are arranged which happens in any random event.

Ira Blinks · May 21, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

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Originally Posted by Jagflame

Then you're blind.

excuse me? it is me who got attitude problems?

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He's saying that it is fairly easy to get in a team that way with someone you know so that you can pick part of your team.

well he is wrong. It is possible but can not be done on purpose... there is major difference.

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So from what I've gathered from what the Kurzicks are complaining about is that if Luxons have a healer on each turtle and a cripshot on each mine then they win for sure. That's four team positions. The chances that you get two cripshots and two monks in the same team in a randomly selected 8vs8 is beyond unlikely. You are also forgetting that a Kurzick Cripshot is just as capable as a Luxon one.

No, you need one monk, since it is Kurzik who have to protect two way, while Luxons one need to storm one.
No, you only need one ranger/wammo/assasin on one mine, because once you take over the second one you spawn there, which is pretty much auto protection for it.

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Honestly Ira I do not approve of your attitude in this thread. Your posts seem to downplay others, including Savio who is a forum mod.

someone telling me I'm wrong. I say ok, show me me how I'm wrong. This is what I saw. This is what I've tried myself. Show me where the mistake is, I can totaly accept the fact that i might be wrong about something. But I don't see that happening. All I hear is the same "no, you wrong" over and over again, and yes I'm getting highly annoyed.

zakaria · May 21, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

The juggernaut things are a lot more powerful and can kill a turtle easily.

Jagged Strike (with lengthen bleeding dagger) > Entangling Asp > Sweeping Wound = -10 pips and he is gone

@savio since it's random selection of team you can't control what you are talking about bonding NPCs gates defenders unless you are encouraging both sides to bring their Monks to bond so they discover they are 5 monks in team and they start rage quit.

As luxon i admit it is little bit unbalance, you can see one shot from turtle towards 2 or 3 kurzicks next to each other and their HP drop like 50% and if they don't have monk they start to freak out and ran away to heal themselves, especailly after breaching the last gate ..narrow grounds..our tanks tanking infront and bam bam from the turtles 3 or 4 of them die.

Little bit off topic I saw thread before (don't remember where it is now!) talking about AFKers in these missions and i thought it is minor issue, but believe me it's getting bigger and bigger everyday..alot of bots/afk on purpose on each sides make playing this mission miserable and ppl start to rage quit coz of that, Anet should find some way to prevent this either by make it not random or something else.

anti_z3r0 · May 21, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

The fundamental problem with this is that the Luxons need minimal coordination to succeed. The Kurzicks, however, require a great deal of coordination to take the win.

Oh, and for those that are saying to just interrupt the turtle....I do interrupt the turtle, and then 4 Luxon warrior NPCs come over and unleash a perfectly coordinated warrior spike on me and I die. That group of warriors that come with the turtles for free needs to go. Leave it to the Luxons to defend their turtles, don't give them free perfectly coordinated gank squads that follow the turtles around and kill any melee that get in range.

Jagflame · May 21, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

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well he is wrong. It is possible but can not be done on purpose... there is major difference.

No, you can do it on purpose, which is what I was implying. Just enter at the same time and there is a pretty good chance that you'll be on the same team. I've done this with my friends before, I know it can be done.

Hunter Sharparrow · May 21, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Honestly Ira I do not approve of your attitude in this thread. Your posts seem to downplay others, including Savio who is a forum mod.

Pot: Hey kettle, how's it goin?
Kettle: Not bad. Hey pot? You do know that you are black with soot right?

Oh, me and my wife had tried that "press the enter mission button at the same time" on a number of occasion for various random arenas. Must be well over 20 times now and we have yet to have it work for us. I'm not saying it's impossible just improbable. Just because so and so is a mod for the forum doesn't make them any more correct on the issue.

Symbol · May 21, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

People stop listing counters. That's the not the point. Killing or rendering the turtle useless is easy enough provided you have the right skills. However this is a random mission. The Luxons do not need a monk, they can happily take a team of all warriors and assassins and just push through with the siege turtles. Sure they'll fail if the Kurzick team is highly coordinated, or has a bonder, or some dedicated interrupt guys, but random team vs random team? Luxons every time.

The Kurzicks either have to be flat out better to win, or they have to get lucky in terms of team composition.

Kaguya · May 21, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakaria

@savio since it's random selection of team you can't control what you are talking about bonding NPCs gates defenders unless you are encouraging both sides to bring their Monks to bond so they discover they are 5 monks in team and they start rage quit.

Well you are lucky if you even get one monk

Well, I actually had 5 monks on a round, 4 healers and me. So I just bonded both gates and 2 peeps healing the bondeds. GG

Ira Blinks · May 21, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakaria

Jagged Strike (with lengthen bleeding dagger) > Entangling Asp > Sweeping Wound = -10 pips and he is gone

well actually turtle can be killed the same way... Problem with juggernaut is that he is alone and insanely slow. He spends most of the time walking around or spinning helplessly while being body-blocked, while turtles deliver sick damage from any position. Not to mention that four Luxon warriors can dispose Juggernaut on their own without much trouble. I tryed using Windborne Speed and Healing Breeze on him, it makes very little difference

Esprit · May 21, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

The whole point behind Carrier Defense is so that you can't body block the turtle. Honestly, if you stand in front of a giant moving turtle you should be killed just for thinking you could stop if by standing in front of it.

Instead you get damaged and teleported/thrown to the side.

I don't think Aspenwood is unbalanced. It just depends on what side has the better strategy.

durand · May 22, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Like I said earlier, turtle + monk = almost assured 600 factions

Agreed

MM + turtle + M = assured 600 factions
Luxons are too advantaged. If they take the 2 mines = almost assured 600 factions too.
For Kuzkrick ts not that easy to take the 2 commander centers since they have to defend also and take amber.Plus Luxon can re take the commader centers too easily, its like useless to take the command centers...same goes for green mine. Luxon doesnt not lose if green mine is taken but if kuzkrick green door is broken, its almost won for luxons.
Kuzkrick npc die with 2 turtle's hit like said before.
Turtles respawn is fast.

Luxon's job : attack only
Kuzkrick's job : defend, take amber, and eventually attack.

Symbol · May 22, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

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I don't think Aspenwood is unbalanced. It just depends on what side has the better strategy

The Luxon's don't need strategy. Seriously, what strategy do they need besides "rush in with turtle"? If they have a monk healing it, that's great. If they deny the Kurzicks the amber mines (which is ridiculuously easy to do, given that they respawn there), even better. But they can do just fine running in and c-spacing their way to victory.

It's an uphill battle for the Kurzicks from start to finish.